alcibiades ii-第3章
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done towards their parent。
ALCIBIADES： Good words； Socrates； prithee。
SOCRATES： You ought not to bid him use auspicious words； who says that you
would not be willing to commit so horrible a deed； but rather him who
affirms the contrary； if the act appear to you unfit even to be mentioned。
Or do you think that Orestes； had he been in his senses and knew what was
best for him to do； would ever have dared to venture on such a crime？
ALCIBIADES： Certainly not。
SOCRATES： Nor would any one else； I fancy？
ALCIBIADES： No。
SOCRATES： That ignorance is bad then； it would appear； which is of the
best and does not know what is best？
ALCIBIADES： So I think； at least。
SOCRATES： And both to the person who is ignorant and everybody else？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES： Let us take another case。 Suppose that you were suddenly to get
into your head that it would be a good thing to kill Pericles； your kinsman
and guardian； and were to seize a sword and； going to the doors of his
house； were to enquire if he were at home； meaning to slay only him and no
one else：the servants reply； 'Yes'： （Mind； I do not mean that you would
really do such a thing； but there is nothing； you think； to prevent a man
who is ignorant of the best； having occasionally the whim that what is
worst is best？
ALCIBIADES： No。）
SOCRATES：If； then； you went indoors； and seeing him； did not know him；
but thought that he was some one else； would you venture to slay him？
ALCIBIADES： Most decidedly not （it seems to me）。 （These words are omitted
in several MSS。）
SOCRATES： For you designed to kill； not the first who offered； but
Pericles himself？
ALCIBIADES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And if you made many attempts； and each time failed to recognize
Pericles； you would never attack him？
ALCIBIADES： Never。
SOCRATES： Well； but if Orestes in like manner had not known his mother； do
you think that he would ever have laid hands upon her？
ALCIBIADES： No。
SOCRATES： He did not intend to slay the first woman he came across； nor
any one else's mother； but only his own？
ALCIBIADES： True。
SOCRATES： Ignorance； then； is better for those who are in such a frame of
mind； and have such ideas？
ALCIBIADES： Obviously。
SOCRATES： You acknowledge that for some persons in certain cases the
ignorance of some things is a good and not an evil； as you formerly
supposed？
ALCIBIADES： I do。
SOCRATES： And there is still another case which will also perhaps appear
strange to you； if you will consider it？ （The reading is here uncertain。）
ALCIBIADES： What is that； Socrates？
SOCRATES： It may be； in short； that the possession of all the sciences； if
unaccompanied by the knowledge of the best； will more often than not injure
the possessor。 Consider the matter thus：Must we not； when we intend
either to do or say anything； suppose that we know or ought to know that
which we propose so confidently to do or say？
ALCIBIADES： Yes； in my opinion。
SOCRATES： We may take the orators for an example； who from time to time
advise us about war and peace； or the building of walls and the
construction of harbours； whether they understand the business in hand； or
only think that they do。 Whatever the city； in a word； does to another
city； or in the management of her own affairs； all happens by the counsel
of the orators。
ALCIBIADES： True。
SOCRATES： But now see what follows； if I can （make it clear to you）。
（Some words appear to have dropped out here。） You would distinguish the
wise from the foolish？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES： The many are foolish； the few wise？
ALCIBIADES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And you use both the terms； 'wise' and 'foolish；' in reference
to something？
ALCIBIADES： I do。
SOCRATES： Would you call a person wise who can give advice； but does not
know whether or when it is better to carry out the advice？
ALCIBIADES： Decidedly not。
SOCRATES： Nor again； I suppose； a person who knows the art of war； but
does not know whether it is better to go to war or for how long？
ALCIBIADES： No。
SOCRATES： Nor； once more； a person who knows how to kill another or to
take away his property or to drive him from his native land； but not when
it is better to do so or for whom it is better？
ALCIBIADES： Certainly not。
SOCRATES： But he who understands anything of the kind and has at the same
time the knowledge of the best course of action：and the best and the
useful are surely the same？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES：Such an one； I say； we should call wise and a useful adviser
both of himself and of the city。 What do you think？
ALCIBIADES： I agree。
SOCRATES： And if any one knows how to ride or to shoot with the bow or to
box or to wrestle； or to engage in any other sort of contest or to do
anything whatever which is in the nature of an art；what do you call him
who knows what is best according to that art？ Do you not speak of one who
knows what is best in riding as a good rider？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And in a similar way you speak of a good boxer or a good flute…
player or a good performer in any other art？
ALCIBIADES： True。
SOCRATES： But is it necessary that the man who is clever in any of these
arts should be wise also in general？ Or is there a difference between the
clever artist and the wise man？
ALCIBIADES： All the difference in the world。
SOCRATES： And what sort of a state do you think that would be which was
composed of good archers and flute…players and athletes and masters in
other arts； and besides them of those others about whom we spoke； who knew
how to go to war and how to kill； as well as of orators puffed up with
political pride； but in which not one of them all had this knowledge of the
best； and there was no one who could tell when it was better to apply any
of these arts or in regard to whom？
ALCIBIADES： I should call such a state bad； Socrates。
SOCRATES： You certainly would when you saw each of them rivalling the
other and esteeming that of the greatest importance in the state；
'Wherein he himself most excelled。' （Euripides； Antiope。）
I mean that which was best in any art； while he was entirely ignorant of
what was best for himself and for the state； because； as I think； he trusts
to opinion which is devoid of intelligence。 In such a case should we not
be right if we said that the state would be full of anarchy and
lawlessness？
ALCIBIADES： Decidedly。
SOCRATES： But ought we not then； think you； either to fancy that we know
or really to know； what we confidently propose to do or say？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And if a person does that which he knows or supposes that he
knows； and the result is beneficial； he will act advantageously both for
himself and for the state？
ALCIBIADES： True。
SOCRATES： And if he do the contrary； both he and the state will suffer？
ALCIBIADES： Yes。
SOCRATES： Well； and are you of the same mind； as before？
ALCIBIADES： I am。
SOCRATES： But were you not saying that you would call the many unwise and
the few wise？
ALCIBIADES： I was。
SOCRATES： And have we not come back to our old assertion that the many
fail to obtain the best because they trust to opinion which is devoid of
intelligence？
ALCIBIADES： That is the case。
SOCRATES： It is good； then； for the many； if they particularly desire to
do that which they know or suppose that they know； neither to know nor to
suppose that they know； in cases where if they carry out their ideas in
action they will be losers rather than gainers？
ALCIBIADES： What you say is very true。
SOCRATES： Do you not see that I was really speaking the truth when I
affirmed that the possession of any other kind of knowledg
