philebus-第7章
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not also in that higher sphere have designed the noblest and fairest
things?
Pro。 Such a supposition is quite unreasonable。
Soc。 Then if this be denied; should we not be wise in adopting the
other view and maintaining that there is in the universe a mighty
infinite and an adequate limit; of which we have often spoken; as well
as a presiding cause of no mean power; which orders and arranges years
and seasons and months; and may be justly called wisdom and mind?
Pro。 Most justly。
Soc。 And wisdom and mind cannot exist without soul?
Pro。 Certainly not。
Soc。 And in the divine nature of Zeus would you not say that there
is the soul and mind of a king; because there is in him the power of
the cause? And other gods have other attributes; by which they are
pleased to be called。
Pro。 Very true。
Soc。 Do not then suppose that these words are rashly spoken by us; O
Protarchus; for they are in harmony with the testimony of those who
said of old time that mind rules the universe。
Pro。 True。
Soc。 And they furnish an answer to my enquiry; for they imply that
mind is the parent of that class of the four which we called the cause
of all; and I think that you now have my answer。
Pro。 I have indeed; and yet I did not observe that you had answered。
Soc。 A jest is sometimes refreshing; Protarchus; when it
interrupts earnest。
Pro。 Very true。
Soc。 I think; friend; that we have now pretty clearly set forth
the class to which mind belongs and what is the power of mind。
Pro。 True。
Soc。 And the class to which pleasure belongs has also been long
ago discovered?
Pro。 Yes。
Soc。 And let us remember; too; of both of them; (1) that mind was
akin to the cause and of this family; and (2) that pleasure is
infinite and belongs to the class which neither has; nor ever will
have in itself; a beginning; middle; or end of its own。
Pro。 I shall be sure to remember。
Soc。 We must next examine what is their place and under what
conditions they are generated。 And we will begin with pleasure;
since her class was first examined; and yet pleasure cannot be rightly
tested apart from pain ever
Pro。 If this is the road; let us take it。
Soc。 I wonder whether you would agree with me about the origin of
pleasure and pain。
Pro。 What do you mean?
Soc。 I mean to say that their natural seat is in the mixed class。
Pro。 And would you tell me again; sweet Socrates; which of the
aforesaid classes is the mixed one?
Soc。 I will my fine fellow; to the best of my ability。
Pro。 Very good。
Soc。 Let us then understand the mixed class to be that which we
placed third in the list of four。
Pro。 That which followed the infinite and the finite; and in which
you ranked health; and; if I am not mistaken; harmony。
Soc。 Capital; and now will you please to give me your best
attention?
Pro。 Proceed; I am attending。
Soc。 I say that when the harmony in animals is dissolved; there is
also a dissolution of nature and a generation of pain。
Pro。 That is very probable。
Soc。 And the restoration of harmony and return to nature is the
source of pleasure; if I may be allowed to speak in the fewest and
shortest words about matters of the greatest moment。
Pro。 I believe that you are right; Socrates; but will you try to
be a little plainer?
Soc。 Do not obvious and every…day phenomena furnish the simplest
illustration?
Pro。 What phenomena do you mean?
Soc。 Hunger; for example; is a dissolution and a pain。
Pro。 True。
Soc。 Whereas eating is a replenishment and a pleasure?
Pro。 Yes。
Soc。 Thirst again is a destruction and a pain; but the effect of
moisture replenishing the dry Place is a pleasure: once more; the
unnatural separation and dissolution caused by heat is painful; and
the natural restoration and refrigeration is pleasant。
Pro。 Very true。
Soc。 And the unnatural freezing of the moisture in an animal is
pain; and the natural process of resolution and return of the elements
to their original state is pleasure。 And would not the general
proposition seem to you to hold; that the destroying of the natural
union of the finite and infinite; which; as I was observing before;
make up the class of living beings; is pain; and that the process of
return of all things to their own nature is pleasure?
Pro。 Granted; what you say has a general truth。
Soc。 Here then is one kind of pleasures and pains originating
severally in the two processes which we have described?
Pro。 Good。
Soc。 Let us next assume that in the soul herself there is an
antecedent hope of pleasure which is sweet and refreshing; and an
expectation of pain; fearful and anxious。
Pro。 Yes; this is another class of pleasures and pains; which is
of the soul only; apart from the body; and is produced by expectation。
Soc。 Right; for in the analysis of these; pure; as I suppose them to
be; the pleasures being unalloyed with pain and the pains with
pleasure; methinks that we shall see clearly whether the whole class
of pleasure is to be desired; or whether this quality of entire
desirableness is not rather to be attributed to another of the classes
which have been mentioned; and whether pleasure and pain; like heat
and cold; and other things of the same kind; are not sometimes to be
desired and sometimes not to be desired; as being not in themselves
good; but only sometimes and in some instances admitting of the nature
of good。
Pro。 You say most truly that this is the track which the
investigation should pursue。
Soc。 Well; then; assuming that pain ensues on the dissolution; and
pleasure on the restoration of the harmony; let us now ask what will
be the condition of animated beings who are neither in process of
restoration nor of dissolution。 And mind what you say: I ask whether
any animal who is in that condition can possibly have any feeling of
pleasure or pain; great or small?
Pro。 Certainly not。
Soc。 Then here we have a third state; over and above that of
pleasure and of pain?
Pro。 Very true。
Soc。 And do not forget that there is such a state; it will make a
great difference in our judgment of pleasure; whether we remember this
or not。 And I should like to say a few words about it。
Pro。 What have you to say?
Soc。 Why; you know that if a man chooses the life of wisdom; there
is no reason why he should not live in this neutral state。
Pro。 You mean that he may live neither rejoicing nor sorrowing?
Soc。 Yes; and if I remember rightly; when the lives were compared;
no degree of pleasure; whether great or small; was thought to be
necessary to him who chose the life of thought and wisdom。
Pro。 Yes; certainly; we said so。
Soc。 Then he will live without pleasure; and who knows whether
this may not be the most divine of all lives?
Pro。 If so; the gods; at any rate; cannot be supposed to have either
joy or sorrow。
Soc。 Certainly not…there would be a great impropriety in the
assumption of either alternative。 But whether the gods are or are
not indifferent to pleasure is a point which may be considered
hereafter if in any way relevant to the argument; and whatever is
the conclusion we will place it to the account of mind in her
contest for the second place; should she have to resign the first。
Pro。 Just so。
Soc。 The other class of pleasures; which as we were saying is purely
mental; is entirely derived from memory。
Pro。 What do you mean?
Soc。 I must first of all analyse memory; or rather perception
which is prior to; memory; if the subject of our discussion is ever to
be properly cleared up。
Pro。 How will you proceed?
Soc。 Let us imagine affect