gorgias-第10章
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ealed a pleasant thing； and are those who are being healed pleased？ Pol。 I think not。 Soc。 A useful thing； then？ Pol。 Yes。 Soc。 Yes； because the patient is delivered from a great evil； and this is the advantage of enduring the pain…that you get well？ Pol。 Certainly。 Soc。 And would he be the happier man in his bodily condition； who is healed； or who never was out of health？ Pol。 Clearly he who was never out of health。 Soc。 Yes； for happiness surely does not consist in being delivered from evils； but in never having had them。 Pol。 True。 Soc。 And suppose the case of two persons who have some evil in their bodies； and that one of them is healed and delivered from evil； and another is not healed； but retains the evil…which of them is the most miserable？ Pol。 Clearly he who is not healed。 Soc。 And was not punishment said by us to be a deliverance from the greatest of evils； which is vice？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 And justice punishes us； and makes us more just； and is the medicine of our vice？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 He； then； has the first place in the scale of happiness who has never had vice in his soul； for this has been shown to be the greatest of evils。 Pol。 Clearly。 Soc。 And he has the second place； who is delivered from vice？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 That is to say； he who receives admonition and rebuke and punishment？ Pol。 Yes。 Soc。 Then he lives worst； who； having been unjust； has no deliverance from injustice？ Pol。 Certainly。 Soc。 That is； he lives worst who commits the greatest crimes； and who； being the most unjust of men； succeeds in escaping rebuke or correction or punishment； and this； as you say； has been accomplished by Archelaus and other tyrants and rhetoricians and potentates？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 May not their way of proceeding； my friend； be compared to the conduct of a person who is afflicted with the worst of diseases and yet contrives not to pay the penalty to the physician for his sins against his constitution； and will not be cured； because； like a child； he is afraid of the pain of being burned or cut：…Is not that a parallel case？ Pol。 Yes； truly。 Soc。 He would seem as if he did not know the nature of health and bodily vigour； and if we are right； Polus； in our previous conclusions； they are in a like case who strive to evade justice； which they see to be painful； but are blind to the advantage which ensues from it； not knowing how far more miserable a companion a diseased soul is than a diseased body； a soul； I say； which is corrupt and unrighteous and unholy。 And hence they do all that they can to avoid punishment and to avoid being released from the greatest of evils； they provide themselves with money and friends； and cultivate to the utmost their powers of persuasion。 But if we； Polus； are right； do you see what follows； or shall we draw out the consequences in form？ Pol。 If you please。 Soc。 Is it not a fact that injustice； and the doing of injustice； is the greatest of evils？ Pol。 That is quite clear。 Soc。 And further； that to suffer punishment is the way to be released from this evil？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 And not to suffer； is to perpetuate the evil？ Pol。 Yes。 Soc。 To do wrong； then； is second only in the scale of evils； but to do wrong and not to be punished； is first and greatest of all？ Pol。 That is true。 Soc。 Well； and was not this the point in dispute； my friend？ You deemed Archelaus happy； because he was a very great criminal and unpunished： I； on the other hand； maintained that he or any other who like him has done wrong and has not been punished； is； and ought to be； the most miserable of all men； and that the doer of injustice is more miserable than the sufferer； and he who escapes punishment； more miserable than he who suffers。…Was not that what I said？ Pol。 Yes。 Soc。 And it has been proved to be true？ Pol。 Certainly。 Soc。 Well； Polus； but if this is true； where is the great use of rhetoric？ If we admit what has been just now said； every man ought in every way to guard himself against doing wrong； for he will thereby suffer great evil？ Pol。 True。 Soc。 And if he； or any one about whom he cares； does wrong； he ought of his own accord to go where he will be immediately punished； he will run to the judge； as he would to the physician； in order that the disease of injustice may not be rendered chronic and become the incurable cancer of the soul； must we not allow this consequence； Polus； if our former admissions are to stand：…is any other inference consistent with them？ Pol。 To that； Socrates； there can be but one answer。 Soc。 Then rhetoric is of no use to us； Polus； in helping a man to excuse his own injustice； that of his parents or friends； or children or country； but may be of use to any one who holds that instead of excusing he ought to accuse…himself above all； and in the next degree his family or any of his friends who may be doing wrong； he should bring to light the iniquity and not conceal it； that so the wrong…doer may suffer and be made whole； and he should even force himself and others not to shrink； but with closed eyes like brave men to let the physician operate with knife or searing iron； not regarding the pain； in the hope of attaining the good and the honourable； let him who has done things worthy of stripes； allow himself to be scourged； if of bonds； to be bound； if of a fine； to be fined； if of exile； to be exiled； if of death； to die； himself being the first to accuse himself and his relations； and using rhetoric to this end； that his and their unjust actions may be made manifest； and that they themselves may be delivered from injustice； which is the greatest evil。 Then； Polus； rhetoric would indeed be useful。 Do you say 〃Yes〃 or 〃No〃 to that？ Pol。 To me； Socrates； what you are saying appears very strange； though probably in agreement with your premises。 Soc。 Is not this the conclusion； if the premises are not disproven？ Pol。 Yes； it certainly is。 Soc。 And from the opposite point of view； if indeed it be our duty to harm another； whether an enemy or not…I except the case of self…defence…then I have to be upon my guard…but if my enemy injures a third person； then in every sort of way； by word as well as deed； I should try to prevent his being punished； or appearing before the judge； and if he appears； I should contrive that he should escape； and not suffer punishment： if he has stolen a sum of money； let him keep what he has stolen and spend it on him and his； regardless of religion and justice； and if he has done things worthy of death； let him not die； but rather be immortal in his wickedness； or； if this is not possible； let him at any rate be allowed to live as long as he can。 For such purposes； Polus； rhetoric may be useful； but is of small if of any use to him who is not intending to commit injustice； at least； there was no such use discovered by us in the previous discussion。 Cal。 Tell me； Chaerephon； is Socrates in earnest； or is he joking？ Chaer。 I should say； Callicles； that he is in most profound earnest； but you may well ask him Cal。 By the gods； and I will。 Tell me； Socrates； are you in earnest； or only in jest？ For if you are in earnest； and what you say is true； is not the whole of human life turned upside down； and are we not doing； as would appear； in everything the opposite of what we ought to be doing？ Soc。 O Callicles； if there were not some community of feelings among mankind； however varying in different persons…I mean to say； if every man's feelings were peculiar to himself and were not shared by the rest of his species…I do not see how we could ever communicate our impressions to one another。 I make this remark because I perceive that you and I have a common feeling。 For we are lovers both； and both of us have two loves apiece：…I am the lover of Alcibiades； the son of Cleinias…I and of philosophy； and you of the Athenian Demus； and of Demus the son of Pyrilampes。 Now； I observe that you； with all your cleverness； do not venture to contradict your favourite in any word or opinion of his； but as he changes you change； backwards and forwards。 When the Athenian Demus denies anything that you are saying in the assembly； you go over to his opinion； and you do the same with Demus； the fair youn
