laches-第8章

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LACHES：　　Yes。







SOCRATES：　　Tell　him　then；　Nicias；　what　you　mean　by　this　wisdom；　for　you



surely　do　not　mean　the　wisdom　which　plays　the　flute？







NICIAS：　　Certainly　not。







SOCRATES：　　Nor　the　wisdom　which　plays　the　lyre？







NICIAS：　　No。







SOCRATES：　　But　what　is　this　knowledge　then；　and　of　what？







LACHES：　　I　think　that　you　put　the　question　to　him　very　well；　Socrates；　and



I　would　like　him　to　say　what　is　the　nature　of　this　knowledge　or　wisdom。







NICIAS：　　I　mean　to　say；　Laches；　that　courage　is　the　knowledge　of　that　which



inspires　fear　or　confidence　in　war；　or　in　anything。







LACHES：　　How　strangely　he　is　talking；　Socrates。







SOCRATES：　　Why　do　you　say　so；　Laches？







LACHES：　　Why；　surely　courage　is　one　thing；　and　wisdom　another。







SOCRATES：　　That　is　just　what　Nicias　denies。







LACHES：　　Yes；　that　is　what　he　denies；　but　he　is　so　silly。







SOCRATES：　　Suppose　that　we　instruct　instead　of　abusing　him？







NICIAS：　　Laches　does　not　want　to　instruct　me；　Socrates；　but　having　been



proved　to　be　talking　nonsense　himself；　he　wants　to　prove　that　I　have　been



doing　the　same。







LACHES：　　Very　true；　Nicias；　and　you　are　talking　nonsense；　as　I　shall



endeavour　to　show。　　Let　me　ask　you　a　question：　　Do　not　physicians　know　the



dangers　of　disease？　or　do　the　courageous　know　them？　or　are　the　physicians



the　same　as　the　courageous？







NICIAS：　　Not　at　all。







LACHES：　　No　more　than　the　husbandmen　who　know　the　dangers　of　husbandry；　or



than　other　craftsmen；　who　have　a　knowledge　of　that　which　inspires　them　with



fear　or　confidence　in　their　own　arts；　and　yet　they　are　not　courageous　a



whit　the　more　for　that。







SOCRATES：　　What　is　Laches　saying；　Nicias？　　He　appears　to　be　saying



something　of　importance。







NICIAS：　　Yes；　he　is　saying　something；　but　it　is　not　true。







SOCRATES：　　How　so？







NICIAS：　　Why；　because　he　does　not　see　that　the　physician's　knowledge　only



extends　to　the　nature　of　health　and　disease：　　he　can　tell　the　sick　man　no



more　than　this。　　Do　you　imagine；　Laches；　that　the　physician　knows　whether



health　or　disease　is　the　more　terrible　to　a　man？　　Had　not　many　a　man　better



never　get　up　from　a　sick　bed？　　I　should　like　to　know　whether　you　think　that



life　is　always　better　than　death。　　May　not　death　often　be　the　better　of　the



two？







LACHES：　　Yes　certainly　so　in　my　opinion。







NICIAS：　　And　do　you　think　that　the　same　things　are　terrible　to　those　who



had　better　die；　and　to　those　who　had　better　live？







LACHES：　　Certainly　not。







NICIAS：　　And　do　you　suppose　that　the　physician　or　any　other　artist　knows



this；　or　any　one　indeed；　except　he　who　is　skilled　in　the　grounds　of　fear



and　hope？　　And　him　I　call　the　courageous。







SOCRATES：　　Do　you　understand　his　meaning；　Laches？







LACHES：　　Yes；　I　suppose　that；　in　his　way　of　speaking；　the　soothsayers　are



courageous。　　For　who　but　one　of　them　can　know　to　whom　to　die　or　to　live　is



better？　　And　yet　Nicias；　would　you　allow　that　you　are　yourself　a



soothsayer；　or　are　you　neither　a　soothsayer　nor　courageous？







NICIAS：　　What！　do　you　mean　to　say　that　the　soothsayer　ought　to　know　the



grounds　of　hope　or　fear？







LACHES：　　Indeed　I　do：　　who　but　he？







NICIAS：　　Much　rather　I　should　say　he　of　whom　I　speak；　for　the　soothsayer



ought　to　know　only　the　signs　of　things　that　are　about　to　come　to　pass；



whether　death　or　disease；　or　loss　of　property；　or　victory；　or　defeat　in



war；　or　in　any　sort　of　contest；　but　to　whom　the　suffering　or　not　suffering



of　these　things　will　be　for　the　best；　can　no　more　be　decided　by　the



soothsayer　than　by　one　who　is　no　soothsayer。







LACHES：　　I　cannot　understand　what　Nicias　would　be　at；　Socrates；　for　he



represents　the　courageous　man　as　neither　a　soothsayer；　nor　a　physician；　nor



in　any　other　character；　unless　he　means　to　say　that　he　is　a　god。　　My



opinion　is　that　he　does　not　like　honestly　to　confess　that　he　is　talking



nonsense；　but　that　he　shuffles　up　and　down　in　order　to　conceal　the



difficulty　into　which　he　has　got　himself。　　You　and　I；　Socrates；　might　have



practised　a　similar　shuffle　just　now；　if　we　had　only　wanted　to　avoid　the



appearance　of　inconsistency。　　And　if　we　had　been　arguing　in　a　court　of　law



there　might　have　been　reason　in　so　doing；　but　why　should　a　man　deck　himself



out　with　vain　words　at　a　meeting　of　friends　such　as　this？







SOCRATES：　　I　quite　agree　with　you；　Laches；　that　he　should　not。　　But　perhaps



Nicias　is　serious；　and　not　merely　talking　for　the　sake　of　talking。　　Let　us



ask　him　just　to　explain　what　he　means；　and　if　he　has　reason　on　his　side　we



will　agree　with　him；　if　not；　we　will　instruct　him。







LACHES：　　Do　you；　Socrates；　if　you　like；　ask　him：　　I　think　that　I　have　asked



enough。







SOCRATES：　　I　do　not　see　why　I　should　not；　and　my　question　will　do　for　both



of　us。







LACHES：　　Very　good。







SOCRATES：　　Then　tell　me；　Nicias；　or　rather　tell　us；　for　Laches　and　I　are



partners　in　the　argument：　　Do　you　mean　to　affirm　that　courage　is　the



knowledge　of　the　grounds　of　hope　and　fear？







NICIAS：　　I　do。







SOCRATES：　　And　not　every　man　has　this　knowledge；　the　physician　and　the



soothsayer　have　it　not；　and　they　will　not　be　courageous　unless　they　acquire



itthat　is　what　you　were　saying？







NICIAS：　　I　was。







SOCRATES：　　Then　this　is　certainly　not　a　thing　which　every　pig　would　know；



as　the　proverb　says；　and　therefore　he　could　not　be　courageous。







NICIAS：　　I　think　not。







SOCRATES：　　Clearly　not；　Nicias；　not　even　such　a　big　pig　as　the　Crommyonian



sow　would　be　called　by　you　courageous。　　And　this　I　say　not　as　a　joke；　but



because　I　think　that　he　who　assents　to　your　doctrine；　that　courage　is　the



knowledge　of　the　grounds　of　fear　and　hope；　cannot　allow　that　any　wild　beast



is　courageous；　unless　he　admits　that　a　lion；　or　a　leopard；　or　perhaps　a



boar；　or　any　other　animal；　has　such　a　degree　of　wisdom　that　he　knows　things



which　but　a　few　human　beings　ever　know　by　reason　of　their　difficulty。　　He



who　takes　your　view　of　courage　must　affirm　that　a　lion；　and　a　stag；　and　a



bull；　and　a　monkey；　have　equally　little　pretensions　to　courage。







LACHES：　　Capital；　Socrates；　by　the　gods；　that　is　truly　good。　　And　I　hope；



Nicias；　that　you　will　tell　us　whether　these　animals；　which　we　all　admit　to



be　courageous；　are　really　wiser　than　mankind；　or　whether　you　will　have　the



boldness；　in　the　face　of　universal　opinion；　to　deny　their　courage。







NICIAS：　　Why；　Laches；　I　do　not　call　animals　or　any　other　things　which　have



no　fear　of　dangers；　because　they　are　ignorant　of　them；　courageous；　but　only



fearless　and　senseless。　　Do　you　imagine　that　I　should　call　little　children



courageous；　which　fear　no　dangers　because　they　know　none？　　There　is　a



difference；　to　my　way　of　thinking；　between　fearlessness　and　courage。　　I　am



of　opinion　that　thoughtful　courage　is　a　quality　possessed　by　very　few；　but



that　rashness　and　boldness；　and　fearlessness；　which　has　no　forethought；　are



very　common　qualities　possessed　by　many　men；　many　women；　many　children；



many　animals。　　And　you；　and　men　in　general；　call　by　the　term　'courageous'



actions　which　I　call　rash；my　courageous　actions　are　wise　actions。







LACHES：　　Behold；　Socrates；　how　admirably；　as　he　thinks；　he　dresses　himself



out　in　words；　while　seeking　to　deprive　of　the　honour　of　courage　those　whom



all　the　world　acknowledges　to　be　courageous。







NICIAS：　　Not　so；　Laches；　but　do　not　be　alarmed；　for　I　am　quite　willing　to



say　o