eryxias-第3章

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ERYXIAS：　　Most　decidedly。



CRITIAS：　　And　does　injustice　seem　to　you　an　evil　or　a　good？



ERYXIAS：　　An　evil。



CRITIAS：　　Do　you　consider　that　he　who　bribes　his　neighbour's　wife　and

commits　adultery　with　her；　acts　justly　or　unjustly；　and　this　although　both

the　state　and　the　laws　forbid？



ERYXIAS：　　Unjustly。



CRITIAS：　　And　if　the　wicked　man　has　wealth　and　is　willing　to　spend　it；　he

will　carry　out　his　evil　purposes？　whereas　he　who　is　short　of　means　cannot

do　what　he　fain　would；　and　therefore　does　not　sin？　　In　such　a　case；　surely；

it　is　better　that　a　person　should　not　be　wealthy；　if　his　poverty　prevents

the　accomplishment　of　his　desires；　and　his　desires　are　evil？　　Or；　again；

should　you　call　sickness　a　good　or　an　evil？



ERYXIAS：　　An　evil。



CRITIAS：　　Well；　and　do　you　think　that　some　men　are　intemperate？



ERYXIAS：　　Yes。



CRITIAS：　　Then；　if　it　is　better　for　his　health　that　the　intemperate　man

should　refrain　from　meat　and　drink　and　other　pleasant　things；　but　he　cannot

owing　to　his　intemperance；　will　it　not　also　be　better　that　he　should　be　too

poor　to　gratify　his　lust　rather　than　that　he　should　have　a　superabundance

of　means？　　For　thus　he　will　not　be　able　to　sin；　although　he　desire　never　so

much。



Critias　appeared　to　be　arguing　so　admirably　that　Eryxias；　if　he　had　not

been　ashamed　of　the　bystanders；　would　probably　have　got　up　and　struck　him。　

For　he　thought　that　he　had　been　robbed　of　a　great　possession　when　it　became

obvious　to　him　that　he　had　been　wrong　in　his　former　opinion　about　wealth。　

I　observed　his　vexation；　and　feared　that　they　would　proceed　to　abuse　and

quarrelling：　　so　I　said；I　heard　that　very　argument　used　in　the　Lyceum

yesterday　by　a　wise　man；　Prodicus　of　Ceos；　but　the　audience　thought　that　he

was　talking　mere　nonsense；　and　no　one　could　be　persuaded　that　he　was

speaking　the　truth。　　And　when　at　last　a　certain　talkative　young　gentleman

came　in；　and；　taking　his　seat；　began　to　laugh　and　jeer　at　Prodicus；

tormenting　him　and　demanding　an　explanation　of　his　argument；　he　gained　the

ear　of　the　audience　far　more　than　Prodicus。



Can　you　repeat　the　discourse　to　us？　　Said　Erasistratus。



SOCRATES：　　If　I　can　only　remember　it；　I　will。　　The　youth　began　by　asking

Prodicus；　In　what　way　did　he　think　that　riches　were　a　good　and　in　what　an

evil？　　Prodicus　answered；　as　you　did　just　now；　that　they　were　a　good　to

good　men　and　to　those　who　knew　in　what　way　they　should　be　employed；　while

to　the　bad　and　the　ignorant　they　were　an　evil。　　The　same　is　true；　he　went

on　to　say；　of　all　other　things；　men　make　them　to　be　what　they　are

themselves。　　The　saying　of　Archilochus　is　true：



'Men's　thoughts　correspond　to　the　things　which　they　meet　with。'



Well；　then；　replied　the　youth；　if　any　one　makes　me　wise　in　that　wisdom

whereby　good　men　become　wise；　he　must　also　make　everything　else　good　to　me。

Not　that　he　concerns　himself　at　all　with　these　other　things；　but　he　has

converted　my　ignorance　into　wisdom。　　If；　for　example；　a　person　teach　me

grammar　or　music；　he　will　at　the　same　time　teach　me　all　that　relates　to

grammar　or　music；　and　so　when　he　makes　me　good；　he　makes　things　good　to　me。



Prodicus　did　not　altogether　agree：　　still　he　consented　to　what　was　said。



And　do　you　think；　said　the　youth；　that　doing　good　things　is　like　building　a

house；the　work　of　human　agency；　or　do　things　remain　what　they　were　at

first；　good　or　bad；　for　all　time？



Prodicus　began　to　suspect；　I　fancy；　the　direction　which　the　argument　was

likely　to　take；　and　did　not　wish　to　be　put　down　by　a　mere　stripling　before

all　those　present：（if　they　two　had　been　alone；　he　would　not　have

minded）：so　he　answered；　cleverly　enough：　　I　think　that　doing　good　things

is　a　work　of　human　agency。



And　is　virtue　in　your　opinion；　Prodicus；　innate　or　acquired　by　instruction？



The　latter；　said　Prodicus。



Then　you　would　consider　him　a　simpleton　who　supposed　that　he　could　obtain

by　praying　to　the　Gods　the　knowledge　of　grammar　or　music　or　any　other　art；

which　he　must　either　learn　from　another　or　find　out　for　himself？



Prodicus　agreed　to　this　also。



And　when　you　pray　to　the　Gods　that　you　may　do　well　and　receive　good；　you

mean　by　your　prayer　nothing　else　than　that　you　desire　to　become　good　and

wise：if；　at　least；　things　are　good　to　the　good　and　wise　and　evil　to　the

evil。　　But　in　that　case；　if　virtue　is　acquired　by　instruction；　it　would

appear　that　you　only　pray　to　be　taught　what　you　do　not　know。



Hereupon　I　said　to　Prodicus　that　it　was　no　misfortune　to　him　if　he　had　been

proved　to　be　in　error　in　supposing　that　the　Gods　immediately　granted　to　us

whatever　we　asked：if；　I　added；　whenever　you　go　up　to　the　Acropolis　you

earnestly　entreat　the　Gods　to　grant　you　good　things；　although　you　know　not

whether　they　can　yield　your　request；　it　is　as　though　you　went　to　the　doors

of　the　grammarian　and　begged　him；　although　you　had　never　made　a　study　of

the　art；　to　give　you　a　knowledge　of　grammar　which　would　enable　you

forthwith　to　do　the　business　of　a　grammarian。



While　I　was　speaking；　Prodicus　was　preparing　to　retaliate　upon　his　youthful

assailant；　intending　to　employ　the　argument　of　which　you　have　just　made

use；　for　he　was　annoyed　to　have　it　supposed　that　he　offered　a　vain　prayer

to　the　Gods。　　But　the　master　of　the　gymnasium　came　to　him　and　begged　him　to

leave　because　he　was　teaching　the　youths　doctrines　which　were　unsuited　to

them；　and　therefore　bad　for　them。



I　have　told　you　this　because　I　want　you　to　understand　how　men　are

circumstanced　in　regard　to　philosophy。　　Had　Prodicus　been　present　and　said

what　you　have　said；　the　audience　would　have　thought　him　raving；　and　he

would　have　been　ejected　from　the　gymnasium。　　But　you　have　argued　so

excellently　well　that　you　have　not　only　persuaded　your　hearers；　but　have

brought　your　opponent　to　an　agreement。　　For　just　as　in　the　law　courts；　if

two　witnesses　testify　to　the　same　fact；　one　of　whom　seems　to　be　an　honest

fellow　and　the　other　a　rogue；　the　testimony　of　the　rogue　often　has　the

contrary　effect　on　the　judges'　minds　to　what　he　intended；　while　the　same

evidence　if　given　by　the　honest　man　at　once　strikes　them　as　perfectly　true。

And　probably　the　audience　have　something　of　the　same　feeling　about　yourself

and　Prodicus；　they　think　him　a　Sophist　and　a　braggart；　and　regard　you　as　a

gentleman　of　courtesy　and　worth。　　For　they　do　not　pay　attention　to　the

argument　so　much　as　to　the　character　of　the　speaker。



But　truly；　Socrates；　said　Erasistratus；　though　you　may　be　joking；　Critias

does　seem　to　me　to　be　saying　something　which　is　of　weight。



SOCRATES：　　I　am　in　profound　earnest；　I　assure　you。　　But　why；　as　you　have

begun　your　argument　so　prettily；　do　you　not　go　on　with　the　rest？　　There　is

still　something　lacking；　now　you　have　agreed　that　（wealth）　is　a　good　to

some　and　an　evil　to　others。　　It　remains　to　enquire　what　constitutes　wealth；

for　unless　you　know　this；　you　cannot　possibly　come　to　an　understanding　as

to　whether　it　is　a　good　or　an　evil。　　I　am　ready　to　assist　you　in　the

enquiry　to　the　utmost　of　my　power：　　but　first　let　him　who　affirms　that

riches　are　a　good；　tell　us　what；　in　his　opinion；　is　wealth。



ERASISTRATUS：　　Indeed；　Socrates；　I　have　no　notion　about　wealth　beyond　that

which　men　commonly　have。　　I　suppose　that　wealth　is　a　quantity　of　money

（compare　Arist。　Pol。）；　and　this；　I　imagine；　would　also　be　Critias'

definition。



SOCRATES：　　Then　now　we　have　to　consider；　What　is　money？　　Or　else　later　on

we　shall　be　found　to　differ　about　the　question。　　For　instance；　the

Carthaginians　use　money　of　this　sort。　　Something　which　is　about　the　size　of

a　stater　is　tied　up　in　a　small　piece　of　leather：　　what　it　is；　no　one　knows

but　the　makers。　　A　seal　is　next　set　upon　the　leather；　which　then　passes

into　circulation；　and　he　who　has　the　largest　number　of　such　pieces　is

esteemed　the　richest　and　best　off。　　And　yet　if　any　one　among　us　had　a　mass

of　such　coins　he　would　be　no　wealthier　than　if　he　had　so　many　pebbles　fro