timaeu-第1章
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TIMAEUS
by Plato
translated by Benjamin Jowett
TIMAEUS
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: SOCRATES; CRITIAS; TIMAEUS; HERMOCRATES
Socrates。 One; two; three; but where; my dear Timaeus; is the fourth
of those who were yesterday my guests and are to be my entertainers
to…day?
Timaeus。 He has been taken ill; Socrates; for he would not willingly
have been absent from this gathering。
Soc。 Then; if he is not coming; you and the two others must supply
his place。
Tim。 Certainly; and we will do all that we can; having been
handsomely entertained by you yesterday; those of us who remain should
be only too glad to return your hospitality。
Soc。 Do you remember what were the points of which I required you to
speak?
Tim。 We remember some of them; and you will be here to remind us
of anything which we have forgotten: or rather; if we are not
troubling you; will you briefly recapitulate the whole; and then the
particulars will be more firmly fixed in our memories?
Soc。 To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's
discourse was the State…how constituted and of what citizens
composed it would seem likely to be most perfect。
Tim。 Yes; Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our
mind。
Soc。 Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and the
artisans from the class of defenders of the State?
Tim。 Yes。
Soc。 And when we had given to each one that single employment and
particular art which was suited to his nature; we spoke of those who
were intended to be our warriors; and said that they were to be
guardians of the city against attacks from within as well as from
without; and to have no other employment; they were to be merciful
in judging their subjects; of whom they were by nature friends; but
fierce to their enemies; when they came across them in battle。
Tim。 Exactly。
Soc。 We said; if I am not mistaken; that the guardians should be
gifted with a temperament in a high degree both passionate and
philosophical; and that then they would be as they ought to be; gentle
to their friends and fierce with their enemies。
Tim。 Certainly。
Soc。 And what did we say of their education? Were they not to be
trained in gymnastic; and music; and all other sorts of knowledge
which were proper for them?
Tim。 Very true。
Soc。 And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or silver
or anything else to be their own private property; they were to be
like hired troops; receiving pay for keeping guard from those who were
protected by them…the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men
of simple life; and they were to spend in common; and to live together
in the continual practice of virtue; which was to be their sole
pursuit。
Tim。 That was also said。
Soc。 Neither did we forget the women; of whom we declared; that
their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with
those of the men; and that common pursuits should be assigned to
them both in time of war and in their ordinary life。
Tim。 That; again; was as you say。
Soc。 And what about the procreation of children? Or rather not the
proposal too singular to be forgotten? for all wives and children were
to be in common; to the intent that no one should ever know his own
child; but they were to imagine that they were all one family; those
who were within a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and
sisters; those who were of an elder generation parents and
grandparents; and those of a younger children and grandchildren。
Tim。 Yes; and the proposal is easy to remember; as you say。
Soc。 And do you also remember how; with a view of securing as far as
we could the best breed; we said that the chief magistrates; male
and female; should contrive secretly; by the use of certain lots; so
to arrange the nuptial meeting; that the bad of either sex and the
good of either sex might pair with their like; and there was to be
no quarrelling on this account; for they would imagine that the
union was a mere accident; and was to be attributed to the lot?
Tim。 I remember。
Soc。 And you remember how we said that the children of the good
parents were to be educated; and the children of the bad secretly
dispersed among the inferior citizens; and while they were all growing
up the rulers were to be on the look…out; and to bring up from below
in their turn those who were worthy; and those among themselves who
were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up?
Tim。 True。
Soc。 Then have I now given you all the heads of our yesterday's
discussion? Or is there anything more; my dear Timaeus; which has been
omitted?
Tim。 Nothing; Socrates; it was just as you have said。
Soc。 I should like; before proceeding further; to tell you how I
feel about the State which we have described。 I might compare myself
to a person who; on beholding beautiful animals either created by
the painter's art; or; better still; alive but at rest; is seized with
a desire of seeing them in motion or engaged in some struggle or
conflict to which their forms appear suited; this is my feeling
about the State which we have been describing。 There are conflicts
which all cities undergo; and I should like to hear some one tell of
our own city carrying on a struggle against her neighbours; and how
she went out to war in a becoming manner; and when at war showed by
the greatness of her actions and the magnanimity of her words in
dealing with other cities a result worthy of her training and
education。 Now I; Critias and Hermocrates; am conscious that I
myself should never be able to celebrate the city and her citizens
in a befitting manner; and I am not surprised at my own incapacity; to
me the wonder is rather that the poets present as well as past are
no better…not that I mean to depreciate them; but every one can see
that they are a tribe of imitators; and will imitate best and most
easily the life in which they have been brought up; while that which
is beyond the range of a man's education he finds hard to carry out in
action; and still harder adequately to represent in language。 I am
aware that the Sophists have plenty of brave words and fair
conceits; but I am afraid that being only wanderers from one city to
another; and having never had habitations of their own; they may
fail in their conception of philosophers and statesmen; and may not
know what they do and say in time of war; when they are fighting or
holding parley with their enemies。 And thus people of your class are
the only ones remaining who are fitted by nature and education to take
part at once both in politics and philosophy。 Here is Timaeus; of
Locris in Italy; a city which has admirable laws; and who is himself
in wealth and rank the equal of any of his fellow…citizens; he has
held the most important and honourable offices in his own state;
and; as I believe; has scaled the heights of all philosophy; and
here is Critias; whom every Athenian knows to be no novice in the
matters of which we are speaking; and as to; Hermocrates; I am assured
by many witnesses that his genius and education qualify him to take
part in any speculation of the kind。 And therefore yesterday when I
saw that you wanted me to describe the formation of the State; I
readily assented; being very well aware; that; if you only would; none
were better qualified to carry the discussion further; and that when
you had engaged our city in a suitable war; you of all men living
could best exhibit her playing a fitting part。 When I had completed my
task; I in return imposed this other task upon you。 You conferred
together and agreed to entertain me to…day; as I had entertained
you; with a feast of discourse。 Here am I in festive array; and no man
can be more ready for the promised banquet。
Her。 And we too; Socrates; as Timaeus says; will not be wanting in
enthusiasm; and there is no excuse for not complying with your
request。 As soon as we arrived yesterday at the guest…chamber of
Critias; with whom w