phaedo-第7章
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Certainly; he ought。
But do you think that every man is able to give a reason about these
very matters of which we are speaking?
I wish that they could; Socrates; but I greatly fear that
to…morrow at this time there will be no one able to give a reason
worth having。
Then you are not of opinion; Simmias; that all men know these
things?
Certainly not。
Then they are in process of recollecting that which they learned
before。
Certainly。
But when did our souls acquire this knowledge?…not since we were
born as men?
Certainly not。
And therefore previously?
Yes。
Then; Simmias; our souls must have existed before they were in the
form of man…without bodies; and must have had intelligence。
Unless indeed you suppose; Socrates; that these notions were given
us at the moment of birth; for this is the only time that remains。
Yes; my friend; but when did we lose them? for they are not in us
when we are born…that is admitted。 Did we lose them at the moment of
receiving them; or at some other time?
No; Socrates; I perceive that I was unconsciously talking nonsense。
Then may we not say; Simmias; that if; as we are always repeating;
there is an absolute beauty; and goodness; and essence in general; and
to this; which is now discovered to be a previous condition of our
being; we refer all our sensations; and with this compare
them…assuming this to have a prior existence; then our souls must have
had a prior existence; but if not; there would be no force in the
argument? There can be no doubt that if these absolute ideas existed
before we were born; then our souls must have existed before we were
born; and if not the ideas; then not the souls。
Yes; Socrates; I am convinced that there is precisely the same
necessity for the existence of the soul before birth; and of the
essence of which you are speaking: and the argument arrives at a
result which happily agrees with my own notion。 For there is nothing
which to my mind is so evident as that beauty; goodness; and other
notions of which you were just now speaking have a most real and
absolute existence; and I am satisfied with the proof。
Well; but is Cebes equally satisfied? for I must convince him too。
I think; said Simmias; that Cebes is satisfied: although he is the
most incredulous of mortals; yet I believe that he is convinced of the
existence of the soul before birth。 But that after death the soul will
continue to exist is not yet proven even to my own satisfaction。 I
cannot get rid of the feeling of the many to which Cebes was
referring…the feeling that when the man dies the soul may be
scattered; and that this may be the end of her。 For admitting that she
may be generated and created in some other place; and may have existed
before entering the human body; why after having entered in and gone
out again may she not herself be destroyed and come to an end?
Very true; Simmias; said Cebes; that our soul existed before we were
born was the first half of the argument; and this appears to have been
proven; that the soul will exist after death as well as before birth
is the other half of which the proof is still wanting; and has to be
supplied。
But that proof; Simmias and Cebes; has been already given; said
Socrates; if you put the two arguments together…I mean this and the
former one; in which we admitted that everything living is born of the
dead。 For if the soul existed before birth; and in coming to life
and being born can be born only from death and dying; must she not
after death continue to exist; since she has to be born again?
surely the proof which you desire has been already furnished。 Still
I suspect that you and Simmias would be glad to probe the argument
further; like children; you are haunted with a fear that when the soul
leaves the body; the wind may really blow her away and scatter her;
especially if a man should happen to die in stormy weather and not
when the sky is calm。
Cebes answered with a smile: Then; Socrates; you must argue us out
of our fears…and yet; strictly speaking; they are not our fears; but
there is a child within us to whom death is a sort of hobgoblin; him
too we must persuade not to be afraid when he is alone with him in the
dark。
Socrates said: Let the voice of the charmer be applied daily until
you have charmed him away。
And where shall we find a good charmer of our fears; Socrates;
when you are gone?
Hellas; he replied; is a large place; Cebes; and has many good
men; and there are barbarous races not a few: seek for him among
them all; far and wide; sparing neither pains nor money; for there
is no better way of using your money。 And you must not forget to
seek for him among yourselves too; for he is nowhere more likely to be
found。
The search; replied Cebes; shall certainly be made。 And now; if
you please; let us return to the point of the argument at which we
digressed。
By all means; replied Socrates; what else should I please?
Very good; he said。
Must we not; said Socrates; ask ourselves some question of this
sort?…What is that which; as we imagine; is liable to be scattered
away; and about which we fear? and what again is that about which we
have no fear? And then we may proceed to inquire whether that which
suffers dispersion is or is not of the nature of soul…our hopes and
fears as to our own souls will turn upon that。
That is true; he said。
Now the compound or composite may be supposed to be naturally
capable of being dissolved in like manner as of being compounded;
but that which is uncompounded; and that only; must be; if anything
is; indissoluble。
Yes; that is what I should imagine; said Cebes。
And the uncompounded may be assumed to be the same and unchanging;
where the compound is always changing and never the same?
That I also think; he said。
Then now let us return to the previous discussion。 Is that idea or
essence; which in the dialectical process we define as essence of true
existence…whether essence of equality; beauty; or anything else: are
these essences; I say; liable at times to some degree of change? or
are they each of them always what they are; having the same simple;
self…existent and unchanging forms; and not admitting of variation
at all; or in any way; or at any time?
They must be always the same; Socrates; replied Cebes。
And what would you say of the many beautiful…whether men or horses
or garments or any other things which may be called equal or
beautiful…are they all unchanging and the same always; or quite the
reverse? May they not rather be described as almost always changing
and hardly ever the same either with themselves or with one another?
The latter; replied Cebes; they are always in a state of change。
And these you can touch and see and perceive with the senses; but
the unchanging things you can only perceive with the mind…they are
invisible and are not seen?
That is very true; he said。
Well; then; he added; let us suppose that there are two sorts of
existences; one seen; the other unseen。
Let us suppose them。
The seen is the changing; and the unseen is the unchanging。
That may be also supposed。
And; further; is not one part of us body; and the rest of us soul?
To be sure。
And to which class may we say that the body is more alike and akin?
Clearly to the seen: no one can doubt that。
And is the soul seen or not seen?
Not by man; Socrates。
And by 〃seen〃 and 〃not seen〃 is meant by us that which is or is
not visible to the eye of man?
Yes; to the eye of man。
And what do we say of the soul? is that seen or not seen?
Not seen。
Unseen then?
Yes。