the memorabilia-第28章
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hundredweight； to attempt to carry a whole！＇13＇
＇13＇ Lit。 〃a single talent's weight 。 。 。 to carry two。〃
Glauc。 Nay； for my part； I am willing enough to assist my uncle's
house； if my uncle would only be persuaded to listen to my advice。
Soc。 Then； when you cannot persuade your uncle； do you imagine you
will be able to make the whole Athenian people； uncle and all； obey
you？ Be careful； Glaucon （he added）； lest in your thirst for glory and
high repute you come to the opposite。 Do you not see how dangerous it
is for a man to speak or act beyond the range＇14＇ of his knowledge？ To
take the cases known to you of people whose conversation or conduct
clearly transcends these limits： should you say they gain more praise
or more blame on that account？ Are they admired the rather or
despised？ Or； again； consider those who do know what they say and what
they do； and you will find； I venture to say； that in every sort of
undertaking those who enjoy repute and admiration belong to the class
of those endowed with the highest knowledge； whilst conversely the
people of sinister reputation； the mean and the contemptible； emanate
from some depth of ignorance and dulness。 If therefore what you thirst
for is repute and admiration as a statesman； try to make sure of one
accomplishment： in other words； the knowledge as far as in you lies of
what you wish to do。＇15＇ If； indeed； with this to distinguish you from
the rest of the world you venture to concern yourself with state
affairs； it would not surprise me but that you might reach the goal of
your ambition easily。
＇14＇ Or； 〃to talk of things which he does not know； or to meddle with
them。〃
＇15＇ Or； 〃try as far as possible to achieve one thing； and that is to
know the business which you propose to carry out。〃
VII
Now Charmides；＇1＇ the son of Glaucon； was； as Socrates observed； a man
of mark and influence： a much more powerful person in fact than the
mass of those devoted to politics at that date； but at the same time
he was a man who shrank from approaching the people or busying himself
with the concerns of the state。 Accordingly Socrates addressed him
thus：
＇1＇ See last chapter for his relationship to Glaucon （the younger） and
Plato； for a conception of his character； Plato's dialogue
〃Charmides〃； 〃Theag。〃 128 E； 〃Hell。〃 II。 iv。 19； 〃Symp。〃 iv。 31；
Grote； 〃Plato；〃 i。 480。
Tell me； Charmides； supposing some one competent to win a victory in
the arena and to receive a crown；＇2＇ whereby he will gain honour
himself and make the land of his fathers more glorious in Hellas；＇3＇
were to refuse to enter the listswhat kind of person should you set
him down to be？
＇2＇ In some conquest （e。g。 of the Olympic games） where the prize is a
mere wreath。
＇3＇ Cf。 Pindar passim。
Clearly an effeminate and cowardly fellow （he answered）。
Soc。 And what if another man； who had it in him； by devotion to
affairs of state； to exalt his city and win honour himself thereby；
were to shrink and hesitate and hang backwould he too not reasonably
be regarded as a coward？
Possibly （he answered）； but why do you address these questions to me？
Because （replied Socrates） I think that you； who have this power； do
hesitate to devote yourself to matters which； as being a citizen； if
for no other reason； you are bound to take part in。＇4＇
＇4＇ Or add； 〃and cannot escape from。〃
Charm。 And wherein have you detected in me this power； that you pass
so severe a sentence upon me？
Soc。 I have detected it plainly enough in those gatherings＇5＇ in which
you meet the politicians of the day； when； as I observe； each time
they consult you on any point you have always good advice to offer；
and when they make a blunder you lay your finger on the weak point
immediately。
＇5＇ See above； I。 v。 4； here possibly of political club conversation。
Charm。 To discuss and reason in private is one thing； Socrates； to
battle in the throng of the assembly is another。
Soc。 And yet a man who can count； counts every bit as well in a crowd
as when seated alone by himself； and it is the best performer on the
harp in private who carries off the palm of victory in public。
Charm。 But do you not see that modesty and timidity are feelings
implanted in man's nature？ and these are much more powerfully present
to us in a crowd than within the cirlce of our intimates。
Soc。 Yes； but what I am bent on teaching you is that while you feel no
such bashfulness and timidity before the wisest and strongest of men；
you are ashamed of opening your lips in the midst of weaklings and
dullards。＇6＇ Is it the fullers among them of whom you stand in awe； or
the cobblers； or the carpenters； or the coppersmiths； or the
merchants； or the farmers； or the hucksters of the market…place
exchanging their wares； and bethinking them how they are to buy this
thing cheap； and to sell the other dearis it before these you are
ashamed； for these are the individual atoms out of which the Public
Assembly is composed？＇7＇ And what is the difference； pray； between
your behaviour and that of a man who； being the superior of trained
athletes； quails before a set of amateurs？ Is it not the case that you
who can argue so readily with the foremost statesmen in the city； some
of whom affect to look down upon youyou； with your vast superiority
over practised popular debatersare no sooner confronted with a set
of folk who never in their lives gave politics a thought； and into
whose heads certainly it never entered to look down upon youthan you
are afraid to open your lips in mortal terror of being laughed at？
＇6＇ Cf。 Cic。 〃Tusc。〃 v。 36； 104； Plat。 〃Gorg。〃 452 E； 454 B。
＇7＇ Cf。 Plat。 〃Protag。〃 319 C。 See W。 L。 Newman； op。 cit。 i。 103。
Well； but you would admit （he answered） that sound argument does
frequently bring down the ridicule of the Popular Assembly。
Soc。 Which is equally true of the others。＇8＇ And that is just what
rouses my astonishment； that you who can cope so easily with these
lordly people （when guilty of ridicule） should persuade yourself that
you cannot stand up against a set of commoners。＇9＇ My good fellow； do
not be ignorant of yourself！＇10＇ do not fall into that commonest of
errorstheirs who rush off to investigate the concerns of the rest of
the world； and have no time to turn and examine themselves。 Yet that
is a duty which you must not in cowardly sort draw back from： rather
must you brace ourself to give good heed to your own self； and as to
public affairs； if by any manner of means they may be improved through
you； do not neglect them。 Success in the sphere of politics means that
not only the mass of your fellow…citizens； but your personal friends
and you yourself last but not least； will profit by your action。
＇8＇ ｛oi eteroi｝； i。e。 〃the foremost statesmen〃 mentioned before。 Al。
〃the opposite party；〃 the 〃Tories；〃 if one may so say； of the
political clubs。
＇9＇ Lit。 〃those 。 。 。 these。〃
＇10＇ Ernesti aptly cf。 Cic。 〃ad Quint。〃 iii。 6。 See below； III。 ix。 6；
IV。 ii。 24。
VIII
Once when Aristippus＇1＇ set himself to subject Socrates to a cross…
examination； such as he had himself undergone at the hands of Socrates
on a former occasion；＇2＇ Socrates； being minded to benefit those who
were with him； gave his answers less in the style of a debater
guarding against perversions of his argument； than of a man persuaded
of the supreme importance of right conduct。＇3＇
＇1＇ For Aristippus see above； p。 38； for the connection； ｛boulomenos
tous sunontas ophelein｝； between this and the preceeding chapter；
see above； Conspectus； p。 xxvi。
＇2＇ Possibly in reference to the conversation above。 In reference to
the present dialogue see Grote； 〃Plato；〃 I。 xi。 p。 380 foll。
＇3＇ For ｛prattein ta deonta｝ cf。 below； III。 ix。 4； 11； Plat。 〃Charm。〃
164 B； but see J。 J。 Hartman； 〃An。 Xen。〃 p。 141。
Aristippus asked him 〃if he knew of anything good；〃＇4＇ intending in
case he assented and named any particular good thing； like food or
drink； or wealth； or health； or strength； or courage； to point out
that the thing named was sometimes bad。 But he； knowing that if a
thing troubles us； we immediately want
