the memorabilia-第27章
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noble； they will not listen to him； but laugh at him； and hoot
him； until he is either clamoured down and retires of himself； or
if he persists； he is dragged away or put out by the constables at
the command of the prytanes〃 （Jowett）。 Cf。 Aristoph。 〃Knights；〃
665； ｛kath eilkon auton oi prutaneis kai toxotai｝。
＇4＇ For Charmides （maternal uncle of Plato and Glaucon； cousin of
Critias） see ch。 vii。 below； Plato the philosopher； Glaucon's
brother； see Cobet； 〃Pros。 Xen。〃 p。 28。
＇5＇ Or； 〃and in the first instance addressing him in such terms he
could not choose but hear； detained him。〃 See above； II。 vi。 11。
Socrates applies his own theory。
Ah； Glaucon （he exclaimed）； so you have determined to become prime
minister？＇6＇
＇6＇ ｛prostateuein｝。
Glauc。 Yes； Socrates； I have。
Soc。 And what a noble aim！ if aught human ever deserved to be called
noble； since if you succeed in your design； it follows； as the night
the day； you will be able not only to gratify your every wish； but you
will be in a position to benefit your friends； you will raise up your
father's house； you will exalt your fatherland； you will become a name
thrice famous in the city first； and next in Hellas； and lastly even
among barbarians perhaps； like Themistocles； but be it here or be it
there； wherever you be； you will be the observed of all beholders。＇7＇
＇7＇ 〃The centre of attractionthe cynosure of neighbouring eyes。〃
The heart of Glaucon swelled with pride as he drank in the words； and
gladly he stayed to listen。
Presently Socrates proceeded： Then this is clear； Glaucon； is it not？
that you must needs benefit the city； since you desire to reap her
honours？
Glauc。 Undoubtedly。
Then； by all that is sacred （Socrates continued）； do not keep us in
the dark； but tell us in what way do you propose first to benefit the
state？ what is your starting…point？＇8＇ When Glaucon remained with
sealed lips； as if he were now for the first time debating what this
starting…point should be； Socrates continued： I presume； if you wished
to improve a friend's estate； you would endeavour to do so by adding
to its wealth； would you not？ So here； maybe； you will try to add to
the wealth of the state？
＇8＇ Or； 〃tell us what your starting…point will be in the path of
benefaction。〃
Most decidedly （he answered）。
Soc。 And we may take it the state will grow wealthier in proportion as
her revenues increase？
Glauc。 That seems probable； at any rate。
Soc。 Then would you kindly tell us from what sources the revenues of
the state are at present derived； and what is their present magnitude？
No doubt you have gone carefully into the question； so that if any of
these are failing you may make up the deficit； or if neglected for any
reason； make some new provision。＇9＇
＇9＇ Or； 〃or if others have dropped out or been negligently overlooked；
you may replace them。〃
Glauc。 Nay； to speak the truth； these are matters I have not
thoroughly gone into。
Never mind （he said） if you have omitted the point； but you might
oblige us by running through the items or heads of expenditure。
Obviously you propose to remove all those which are superfluous？
Glauc。 Well； no。 Upon my word I have not had time to look into that
side of the matter either as yet。
Soc。 Then we will postpone for the present the problem of making the
state wealthier； obviously without knowing the outgoings and the
incomings it would be impossible to deal with the matter seriously。
But； Socrates （Glaucon remarked）； it is possible to enrich the state
out of the pockets of her enemies！
Yes； to be sure； considerably （answered Socrates）； in the event of
getting the better of them； but in the event of being worsted； it is
also possible to lose what we have got。
A true observation （he replied）。
And therefore （proceeded Socrates）； before he makes up his mind with
what enemy to go to war； a statesman should know the relative powers
of his own city and the adversary's； so that； in case the superiority
be on his own side； he may throw the weight of his advice into the
scale of undertaking war； but if the opposite he may plead in favour
of exercising caution。
You are right （he answered）。
Soc。 Then would you for our benefit enumerate the land and naval
forces first of Athens and then of our opponents？
Glauc。 Pardon me。 I could not tell you them off…hand at a moment's
notice。
Or （added Socrates）； if you have got the figures on paper； you might
produce them。 I cannot tell how anxious I am to hear your statement。
Glauc。 No； I assure you； I have not got them even on paper yet。
Soc。 Well then； we will defer tending advice on the topic of peace or
war； in a maiden speech at any rate。＇10＇ I can understand that； owing
to the magnitude of the questions； in these early days of your
ministry you have not yet fully examined them。 But come； I am sure
that you have studied the defences of the country； at all events； and
you know exactly how many forts and outposts are serviceable＇11＇ and
how many are not； you can tell us which garrisons are strong enough
and which defective； and you are prepared to throw in the weight of
your advice in favour of increasing the serviceable outposts and
sweeping away those that are superfluous？
＇10＇ See 〃Econ。〃 xi。 1。
＇11＇ Or； 〃advantageously situated。〃 See the author's own tract on
〃Revenues。〃
Glauc。 Yes； sweep them all away； that's my advice； for any good that
is likely to come of them！ Defences indeed！ so maintained that the
property of the rural districts is simply pilfered。
But suppose you sweep away the outposts （he asked）； may not something
worse； think you； be the consequence？ will not sheer plundering be
free to any ruffian who likes？ 。 。 。 But may I ask is this judgment
the result of personal inspection？ have you gone yourself and examined
the defences？ or how do you know that they are all maintained as you
say？
Glauc。 I conjecture that it is so。
Soc。 Well then； until we have got beyond the region of conjecture
shall we defer giving advice on the matter？ （It will be time enough
when we know the facts。）
Possibly it would be better to wait till then （replied Glaucon）。
Soc。 Then there are the mines；＇12＇ but； of course； I am aware that you
have not visited them in person； so as to be able to say why they are
less productive than formerly。
＇12＇ Again the author's tract on 〃Revenues〃 is a comment on the
matter。
Well； no； I have never been there myself （he answered）。
Soc。 No； Heaven help us！ an unhealthy district by all accounts； so
that； when the moment for advice on that topic arrives； you will have
an excuse ready to hand。
I see you are making fun of me （Glaucon answered）。
Soc。 Well； but here is a point； I am sure； which you have not
neglected。 No； you will have thoroughly gone into it； and you can tell
us。 For how long a time could the corn supplies from the country
districts support the city？ how much is requisite for a single year；
so that the city may not run short of this prime necessary； before you
are well aware； but on the contrary you with your full knowledge will
be in a position to give advice on so vital a question； to the aid or
may be the salvation of your country？
It is a colossal business this （Glaucon answered）； if I am to be
obliged to give attention to all these details。
Soc。 On the other hand； a man could not even manage his own house or
his estate well； without； in the first place； knowing what he
requires； and； in the second place； taking pains； item by item； to
supply his wants。 But since this city consists of more than ten
thousand houses； and it is not easy to pay minute attention to so many
all at once； how is it you did not practise yourself by trying to
augment the resources of one at any rate of theseI mean your own
uncle's？ The service would not be thrown away。 Then if your strength
suffices in the single case you might take in hand a larger number；
but if you fail to relieve one； how could you possibly hope to succeed
with many？ How absurd for a man； if he cannot carry half a
hundredweight； to attempt to carry a whole！＇13＇
＇13＇ Lit。 〃a single talent's
