cratylus-第36章

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SOCRATES：　　And　does　this　art　grow　up　among　men　like　other　arts？　　Let　me

explain　what　I　mean：　　of　painters；　some　are　better　and　some　worse？



CRATYLUS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　The　better　painters　execute　their　works；　I　mean　their　figures；

better；　and　the　worse　execute　them　worse；　and　of　builders　also；　the　better

sort　build　fairer　houses；　and　the　worse　build　them　worse。



CRATYLUS：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　And　among　legislators；　there　are　some　who　do　their　work　better

and　some　worse？



CRATYLUS：　　No；　there　I　do　not　agree　with　you。



SOCRATES：　　Then　you　do　not　think　that　some　laws　are　better　and　others

worse？



CRATYLUS：　　No；　indeed。



SOCRATES：　　Or　that　one　name　is　better　than　another？



CRATYLUS：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　Then　all　names　are　rightly　imposed？



CRATYLUS：　　Yes；　if　they　are　names　at　all。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　what　do　you　say　to　the　name　of　our　friend　Hermogenes；

which　was　mentioned　before：assuming　that　he　has　nothing　of　the　nature　of

Hermes　in　him；　shall　we　say　that　this　is　a　wrong　name；　or　not　his　name　at

all？



CRATYLUS：　　I　should　reply　that　Hermogenes　is　not　his　name　at　all；　but　only

appears　to　be　his；　and　is　really　the　name　of　somebody　else；　who　has　the

nature　which　corresponds　to　it。



SOCRATES：　　And　if　a　man　were　to　call　him　Hermogenes；　would　he　not　be　even

speaking　falsely？　　For　there　may　be　a　doubt　whether　you　can　call　him

Hermogenes；　if　he　is　not。



CRATYLUS：　　What　do　you　mean？



SOCRATES：　　Are　you　maintaining　that　falsehood　is　impossible？　　For　if　this

is　your　meaning　I　should　answer；　that　there　have　been　plenty　of　liars　in

all　ages。



CRATYLUS：　　Why；　Socrates；　how　can　a　man　say　that　which　is　not？say

something　and　yet　say　nothing？　　For　is　not　falsehood　saying　the　thing　which

is　not？



SOCRATES：　　Your　argument；　friend；　is　too　subtle　for　a　man　of　my　age。　　But　I

should　like　to　know　whether　you　are　one　of　those　philosophers　who　think

that　falsehood　may　be　spoken　but　not　said？



CRATYLUS：　　Neither　spoken　nor　said。



SOCRATES：　　Nor　uttered　nor　addressed？　　For　example：　　If　a　person；　saluting

you　in　a　foreign　country；　were　to　take　your　hand　and　say：　　'Hail；　Athenian

stranger；　Hermogenes；　son　of　Smicrion'these　words；　whether　spoken；　said；

uttered；　or　addressed；　would　have　no　application　to　you　but　only　to　our

friend　Hermogenes；　or　perhaps　to　nobody　at　all？



CRATYLUS：　　In　my　opinion；　Socrates；　the　speaker　would　only　be　talking

nonsense。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　but　that　will　be　quite　enough　for　me；　if　you　will　tell　me

whether　the　nonsense　would　be　true　or　false；　or　partly　true　and　partly

false：which　is　all　that　I　want　to　know。



CRATYLUS：　　I　should　say　that　he　would　be　putting　himself　in　motion　to　no

purpose；　and　that　his　words　would　be　an　unmeaning　sound　like　the　noise　of

hammering　at　a　brazen　pot。



SOCRATES：　　But　let　us　see；　Cratylus；　whether　we　cannot　find　a　meeting…

point；　for　you　would　admit　that　the　name　is　not　the　same　with　the　thing

named？



CRATYLUS：　　I　should。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　further　acknowledge　that　the　name　is　an　imitation

of　the　thing？



CRATYLUS：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　you　would　say　that　pictures　are　also　imitations　of　things；

but　in　another　way？



CRATYLUS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　I　believe　you　may　be　right；　but　I　do　not　rightly　understand　you。　

Please　to　say；　then；　whether　both　sorts　of　imitation　（I　mean　both　pictures

or　words）　are　not　equally　attributable　and　applicable　to　the　things　of

which　they　are　the　imitation。



CRATYLUS：　　They　are。



SOCRATES：　　First　look　at　the　matter　thus：　　you　may　attribute　the　likeness

of　the　man　to　the　man；　and　of　the　woman　to　the　woman；　and　so　on？



CRATYLUS：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　conversely　you　may　attribute　the　likeness　of　the　man　to　the

woman；　and　of　the　woman　to　the　man？



CRATYLUS：　　Very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　are　both　modes　of　assigning　them　right；　or　only　the　first？



CRATYLUS：　　Only　the　first。



SOCRATES：　　That　is　to　say；　the　mode　of　assignment　which　attributes　to　each

that　which　belongs　to　them　and　is　like　them？



CRATYLUS：　　That　is　my　view。



SOCRATES：　　Now　then；　as　I　am　desirous　that　we　being　friends　should　have　a

good　understanding　about　the　argument；　let　me　state　my　view　to　you：　　the

first　mode　of　assignment；　whether　applied　to　figures　or　to　names；　I　call

right；　and　when　applied　to　names　only；　true　as　well　as　right；　and　the　other

mode　of　giving　and　assigning　the　name　which　is　unlike；　I　call　wrong；　and　in

the　case　of　names；　false　as　well　as　wrong。



CRATYLUS：　　That　may　be　true；　Socrates；　in　the　case　of　pictures；　they　may　be

wrongly　assigned；　but　not　in　the　case　of　namesthey　must　be　always　right。



SOCRATES：　　Why；　what　is　the　difference？　　May　I　not　go　to　a　man　and　say　to

him；　'This　is　your　picture；'　showing　him　his　own　likeness；　or　perhaps　the

likeness　of　a　woman；　and　when　I　say　'show；'　I　mean　bring　before　the　sense

of　sight。



CRATYLUS：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　may　I　not　go　to　him　again；　and　say；　'This　is　your　name'？

for　the　name；　like　the　picture；　is　an　imitation。　　May　I　not　say　to　him

'This　is　your　name'？　and　may　I　not　then　bring　to　his　sense　of　hearing　the

imitation　of　himself；　when　I　say；　'This　is　a　man'；　or　of　a　female　of　the

human　species；　when　I　say；　'This　is　a　woman；'　as　the　case　may　be？　　Is　not

all　that　quite　possible？



CRATYLUS：　　I　would　fain　agree　with　you；　Socrates；　and　therefore　I　say；

Granted。



SOCRATES：　　That　is　very　good　of　you；　if　I　am　right；　which　need　hardly　be

disputed　at　present。　　But　if　I　can　assign　names　as　well　as　pictures　to

objects；　the　right　assignment　of　them　we　may　call　truth；　and　the　wrong

assignment　of　them　falsehood。　　Now　if　there　be　such　a　wrong　assignment　of

names；　there　may　also　be　a　wrong　or　inappropriate　assignment　of　verbs；　and

if　of　names　and　verbs　then　of　the　sentences；　which　are　made　up　of　them。　

What　do　you　say；　Cratylus？



CRATYLUS：　　I　agree；　and　think　that　what　you　say　is　very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　further；　primitive　nouns　may　be　compared　to　pictures；　and　in

pictures　you　may　either　give　all　the　appropriate　colours　and　figures；　or

you　may　not　give　them　allsome　may　be　wanting；　or　there　may　be　too　many　or

too　much　of　themmay　there　not？



CRATYLUS：　　Very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　he　who　gives　all　gives　a　perfect　picture　or　figure；　and　he

who　takes　away　or　adds　also　gives　a　picture　or　figure；　but　not　a　good　one。



CRATYLUS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　In　like　manner；　he　who　by　syllables　and　letters　imitates　the

nature　of　things；　if　he　gives　all　that　is　appropriate　will　produce　a　good

image；　or　in　other　words　a　name；　but　if　he　subtracts　or　perhaps　adds　a

little；　he　will　make　an　image　but　not　a　good　one；　whence　I　infer　that　some

names　are　well　and　others　ill　made。



CRATYLUS：　　That　is　true。



SOCRATES：　　Then　the　artist　of　names　may　be　sometimes　good；　or　he　may　be

bad？



CRATYLUS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　this　artist　of　names　is　called　the　legislator？



CRATYLUS：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　Then　like　other　artists　the　legislator　may　be　good　or　he　may　be

bad；　it　must　surely　be　so　if　our　former　admissions　hold　good？



CRATYLUS：　　Very　true；　Socrates；　but　the　case　of　language；　you　see；　is

different；　for　when　by　the　help　of　grammar　we　assign　the　letters　alpha　or

beta；　or　any　other　letters　to　a　certain　name；　then；　if　we　add；　or　subtract；

or　misplace　a　letter；　the　name　which　is　written　is　not　only　written

wrongly；　but　not　written　at　all；　and　in　any　of　these　cases　becomes　other

than　a　name。



SOCRATES：　　But　I　doubt　whether　your　view　is　altogether　correct；　Cratylus。



CRATYLUS：　　How　so？



SOCRATES：　　I　believe　that　what　you　say　may　be　true　about　numbers；　which

must　be　just　what　they　are；　or　not　be　at　all；　for　example；　the　number　ten

at　once　becomes　other　than　ten　if　a　unit　be　added　or　subtracted；　and　so　of

any　other　number：　　but　this　does　not　apply　to　that　which　is　qualitative　or

to　anything　which　is　represented　un